In addition, I am pleased to say that after contacting some extraordinary players who reside in Asia, they've given me permission to bring their research and analyses to the English-speaking Line Rangers community. These guys churn out content faster than I can attempt alone here. It's happened about twice already: I'd think of something I wanted to test and a day later they've already finished and published it. I'm sure you will agree that their findings are relevant and extremely well done.
Upgrading Minerals
When talking about mineral upgrades, we must first differentiate between:(1) mineral upgrades that are available with increasing player level, and
(2) the mineral upgrades that are done during battle in a stage
For clarity, I'll be referring to the player level upgrades using coins as "production upgrades" and in-stage upgrades as "mineral upgrades".
As I mentioned in my basic battle strategies post, what you do with the first set of minerals at the start of a stage is crucial. When and how you upgrade your minerals can make or break your performance. Why should you upgrade minerals at all since it costs you precious minerals? Doing so does two distinct things:
1. Increases the rate of your mineral regeneration
2. Increases your maximum capacity of minerals
If you've ever wondered whether upgrading minerals was worth the time and the investment, then read on for the answer! Here we discuss the break even time for individual mineral upgrades, and for quick powerlevel-to-8 upgrades.
Or... TL;DR, if you read nothing else, read the 2 red bold texts within.
[Updated June 9, 2014: The original author has a supplemental article to address additional mineral upgrade possibilities after the issues raised in the Comments section.]
The Numbers: Pay As You Go
The information below is brought to us by members of LINE Rangers台灣社團 who created this article, entitled "Should you upgrade minerals to Lv. 8?," on AppGuru. These numbers relate to the "pay as you go" type of mineral upgrading during stage battle. Please click on the link if you wish to follow through the numbers and tables below.Author: 楊濟安
Editor: 小為
Research Participants: 小為,尤俊杰,陳安安,ShawTim,楊濟安
The data collected is based on a player level 80 with fully upgraded mineral production.
The first table shows the following data:
Column 1 (black color): mineral level
Column 2 (red): amount of minerals regenerated per second at that level
Column 3 (blue): regeneration rate (minerals/second) increase per level
Column 4 (green): minerals gained per second between that level and mineral level 1
Interesting side note: The increase in the regeneration rate is not the same for each level. If it were, the blue column would all be the same #. Why must Line make things so complicated?
So from this table you can see that the amount of minerals you gain after you upgrade to level 8 is approximately 34 minerals per second, bringing the amount of minerals you can regenerate in 1 second up from 164 to 198. If you get 198 minerals back per second, how does that affect our deployment choices?
The author figured out that if you pick Sol, Macho Moon, Xan, Opera James and Alice on your team, the amount of minerals you would need to generate per second in order to deploy all of these rangers back to back (as soon as their cooldown is over) is 275. Essentially with this team, you require more minerals than you can generate, resulting in times when you cannot deploy your rangers. Conversely, if you pick Glenn, Scott, Bella, Opera James and Alice, the minerals you need per second are 194, which almost fits perfectly. But when you consider also that you gain minerals each time you kill an enemy unit, you will eventually find that you have more minerals than you can spend, resulting in wasted minerals. No, I'm not suggesting that you punch in some numbers every time you make a team change, but it's something to consider if you are running into inefficiencies on a difficult stage.
The second table shows the following data:
Column 1 (black): mineral level
Column 2 (red): mineral cost to upgrade one level
Column 3 (blue): accumulated mineral cost to upgrade to that level
Column 4 (green): seconds required to break even on cost of mineral upgrade for that level
This table shows that at level 80 if you upgrade minerals to level 8, it takes 3 minutes and 27 seconds to recoup the cost of the upgrades (3380 minerals). This is a significant finding because the cutoff for the Hurry Up phase is 3 minutes. If you do not expect to hit Hurry Up, then upgrading to level 8 has wasted more minerals than you have had time yet to regenerate. At mineral level 6, it takes just under 3 minutes to break even. Most stages take less than 3 minutes to clear, so you can safely conclude that you need only get up to level 5 or 6 to get the most out of your investment.
Remember, this data is based on level 80 mineral production, and the rates may differ if you are lower. But the concepts highlighted by the study still apply.
This is why knowing your strategy before starting is so important to winning a stage. For example, there are stages where you can afford to start off slowly and produce just what you need to hold the enemy off. You are upgrading minerals slowly in order to overwhelm the enemies later in the stage (such as stage 97, 98, 100). There are stages where you are just stalling, waiting for mini bosses to group up (108, 120) or biding time to a Thomas or otherwise strategically saving up your minerals and rangers to unleash at a critical point. If you want to optimize your use of minerals for that strategy, then you should definitely consider how much mineral you need and how much you can afford to invest in upgrades at any point in time. Every time you invest in a mineral upgrade, you are temporarily cutting production of rangers. If you want to get the most you can out of it, you should determine the safest time to pull this trigger, and how much time you will have to reap the benefits of the upgrade.
Supplemental Article: Powerleveling Minerals
Shoutout to reader Chun Lok, whose astute observations sparked the authors of the article to write a supplemental article. The addendum is here: Should you upgrade minerals to Lv. 8: Continuous Upgrade Edition. Please click on the article if you wish to follow along with the data in the new table. This method of upgrading is what I generally refer to in my blog as "powerleveling minerals."
The previous article described the situation where a straight upgrade to level 8 was not possible. The assumption of that piece was that the initial 1270 starting minerals were not used to upgrade minerals, therefore they isolated each upgrade as an independent consideration during battle. The new article, however, addresses specifically the situation where the player will power-level their minerals from level 1 to level 8 back-to-back at the start of the stage. The condition of the experiment is for level 80 mineral production and level 80 mineral max limit.
Table columns 1, 2, 3 and 4 should look familiar as they were in the first article. They are:
Column 1: mineral level
Column 2: amount of minerals regenerated per second at that level
Column 3: minerals gained per second between that level and mineral level 1
Column 4: accumulated cost to upgrade to that level
Column 5: time to pay off cost of that level, in seconds (Column 4/Column 3)
Column 6: upgrade time to that level, in seconds. Note that level 2 and 3 require 0 seconds because it is sufficient to use the initial 1270 minerals to upgrade.
Column 7 (highlighted yellow): total play time required to break even (Pay off time + upgrade time)
Column 2: amount of minerals regenerated per second at that level
Column 3: minerals gained per second between that level and mineral level 1
Column 4: accumulated cost to upgrade to that level
Column 5: time to pay off cost of that level, in seconds (Column 4/Column 3)
Column 6: upgrade time to that level, in seconds. Note that level 2 and 3 require 0 seconds because it is sufficient to use the initial 1270 minerals to upgrade.
Column 7 (highlighted yellow): total play time required to break even (Pay off time + upgrade time)
From the last column's numbers, you can deduce that if the stage requires less than a minute to clear, then not upgrading at all is the most efficient. For stages taking longer than 2 minutes, you will reap gains out of upgrading to level 8.
The author stated that in practice even with nonstop tapping of the upgrade button, level 1 to level 8 took him 16 seconds, not the 10.98 seconds that was predicted in the table. (It took our reader 11.77 seconds, which is closer). There is some loss of efficiency between the reality of gameplay and ideals with which the table was calculated (assuming you could hit the upgrade button as soon as you had enough minerals, which in reality would be very unlikely). So there are obviously going to be some discrepancies in the break even points of both this article and the first article. We should treat them more as a reference/guideline, not hard rules. Armed with this information, you'll ultimately have to decide for yourself which strategy is most effective:
- Don't upgrade, directly deploy rangers
- Upgrade a level, then deploy rangers
- Upgrade all the way to level 8 before deploying any rangers
Player Mineral Levels
Finally, I wanted to just mention that if you upgrade your mineral production rate with coins, you are effectively increasing the rate of mineral regeneration outside of battle. Let's assume for example that you're player level 75 and that in battle your mineral level 8 gives you 185 minerals per second, meanwhile you have spent 2500 minerals in order to get to level 8. If you spend coins to upgrade your mineral production once, you will regenerate 185 minerals per second at mineral level 7, effectively saving you from spending a bunch of minerals to upgrade that last level while in battle.Many players say they don't think that spending coins on increasing the mineral max limit is important, or not as important after a certain level. That's a little bit true and false. Consider Bernard, who costs 1000 minerals to deploy at level 80. He's a tanking ranger, so unless you start the stage with 1000, you won't be deploying your tank! Yes, you can get by with less and then upgrade minerals in the stage to eventually raise the max capacity. But let's not forget that you always start the stage with a full set of minerals. If you had the choice of starting the stage with 1270 minerals instead of 900 minerals, wouldn't you want to start with more? If you start with more, you can either get a head start on mineral upgrades or you might be able to deploy rangers. Ultimately, it is up to you to decide whether it's worth the coin-sink to raise the starting maximum. If you twisted my arm, I'd say put your coins into production first, then mineral max, but I certainly would not ignore the mineral max limit category.
This was a lot of text. Hope it was helpful information to everyone! Special thanks to contributors to the discussion & article authors!
Thank you kirby. Finally I can understand that article. Haha
ReplyDeleteYeah it's good stuff. Where the font style changes is where their article contents begin and end.
DeleteOkay, maybe I am missing something, but it looks like the author missed some calculations there.
ReplyDeleteIn the first table, it gives us about 164 minerals/second in 1st level. So even with this regeneration rate, it takes just about 20 seconds to break even the minerals we used to get to level 8 mineral production ; 3380 minerals.
Cause each level gives us more regeneration rate, I believe it needs less than 20 seconds to pay all the minerals needed for level 8 mineral production upgrade. I still don't know how the author's calculation produces the numbers in green column in table 2. This is what I figured from the article, if I'm missing something, hope u can explain. Sorry for my bad English, hehe.
Hey, I'm the article's author.
DeleteI think maybe my expression is not enough clear.
At level 1 164 mineral recoverd per second.
If we we make it to level 2, 170 mineral recovered per second.
It increased 6 per second,and it cost 440 to level up.
440/6=71
It needs 71 second to break even the beginning cost 440.
http://ppt.cc/aIiD
This is my excel. I think it will be helpful to understand this article.
Hi! :)
Delete@Anonymous: If you straight up divide 3380 by 164 min/sec then you will simply get how long it takes to generate 3380 minerals if you spent no time and no minerals to upgrade, just staying at level 1. That's pretty straight forward and linear.
The way that the author calculated: First how long it takes to regen the amount you sunk into upgrading to level 2 (440 Minerals), so 440 min/6.16 min per sec that you gain from level 2 rate. This is how he arrived at 71.34 seconds.
Then you upgrade to level 3, you spent 450 more minerals. The amount you gain from level 3 (compared to level 1) per second is 12.40 minerals. Therefore 450/12.40 = 36.29 seconds. Add that back to the 71.34 seconds you got from upgrading level 2 and you get 107.63. And so on until you get to level 8.
This is the calculation taking into account the progression of one level to the next. Make better sense? @_@
Or in other words, we're recouping the cost of the upgrade using only the increased rate of regeneration. It is not useful to include the original level 1 164 mineral per second in the calculation because that amount of minerals is regenerating regardless of if you spend money to upgrade or not. We are only interested in how quickly the increased rate will give us back 3380 minerals.
DeleteGreat article..gives a lot of insight on the mechanics of the game.
ReplyDeleteI haven't been upgrading my stage minerals much lately (4-6 at the most) due to my play style.
While on the topic of game mechanics... one thing that has always alluded me was how Thomas works. How do I determine when he will appear?
ReplyDeleteThat's one of the topics I was going to experiment with some tedious replays... and then I found out 小為already did the research. I'll wait and see if he publishes. Not to spoil anything for the big reveal, but Thomas does not trigger based on number of friendly unit deaths alone. It's a little more involved.
DeleteThat would be nice discussion.
DeleteI only know Thomas would appear a lot faster if we use *1 ranger as sacrifice :D
Hey there. i'm just curious about how big the damage that thomas does. and so is it possible if we hit enemies with thomas once and then we use tornado and hit them again using the same thomas? thankyou
DeleteI read the article before, it's good. But there are three issues.
ReplyDeleteFirst, previous mineral upgrades are "sunk costs" and should not affect whether the next mineral upgrade is correct. For example, at level 3, the only consideration for moving to level 4 or not is "will the game last 470/4.82 = 79.00 seconds further from this point". Even if level 2 costed you a million and you stupidly paid for that, it does not affect your decision at this moment.
Second, the break-even time depends on starting minerals and the timing of each upgrade. The author's calculations must only be correct for a finite number of transition paths or parameter ranges, which certainly does not apply to every stage. Thinking at the margins avoids this problem.
Third, if the stage is long enough to not create any rangers until level 8 [say, stage 96], I got different numbers from the author, using the same starting parameters (level 80 production and mineral storage, 1270 starting minerals).
The calculations is a whole table, but basically, it takes 11.77 seconds if you do absolutely nothing but bee-line to level 8. It will pay-off in 100.09 further seconds. That's still less than 2 minutes in total.
Ah, an economist! I think in practice many players would instinctively think marginally and struggle with the decision internally as they are playing. In your example, at level 3, what the player ought be worrying about in the next 2.66 seconds is whether their upcoming 470 minerals should be spent on sending out Sorcerer Cony or spent on upgrading to level 4, and I use Cony just because she happens to cost 470 at max. (Though 470 mineral/4.82 minerals per second gained from lv 3 to 4 = 97.5 seconds, no?) So I think what you are getting at is, perhaps, the question to ask shouldn't be "should I upgrade minerals to level 8?" as a single action. Maybe it should be "should I upgrade to the next level?" at any given point during battle. I hope I am not missing the point. I think that's totally valid, Chun Lok. In fact, I think I get at that a bit when I urge that one should consider their strategy and plan out when they should be investing in upgrades.
DeleteI didn't step through the experiment myself as you painstakingly did, so I will have to take your word for it! What I would want for the readers to take away from the article is not really the specific bunch of numbers, as interesting as they are to me. It's a lot more general, actually.
- Some consideration about whether the mineral you are capable of generating fulfills the needs of your team
- Do not feel the need to upgrade to level 8 "just because" - I have stopped playing with sound effects to make that button's obnoxious sound go away.
- And last but not least, there is a notion of a “break-even point”, so you should think about the timing of your upgrades as it relates to challenges of the stage & the strategy you want to execute
For *a lot* of people visiting the blog, this whole thing is TL;DR (too long, didn't read). If they only read the red bold text then perhaps in the long run they'll just take away that they ought to consider whether going all the way to level 8 is necessary.
Hey Chun Lok, they have updated with a new article to supplement the discussion of mineral upgrades: http://www.appguru.com.tw/appguru/apps/390345
DeleteThe results coincide with all the issues you pointed out. Nice work!
Panic, could you address an article about the list of all rangers (4 and 5 star) with full details of HP and damages (each 1 ranger max level and 5 ranger max level). This topic is very useful for us because NOT everyone has all of the rangers which Line has introduced until now.
ReplyDeleteI second this suggestion, would be a good guideline.. I've seen those with a full out maxed level 80 5* rangers but most neglect to document the stats at level 60 for those who managed to only obtain 1 5* ranger from premium gacha.
DeleteThis means the maxed stats for 120%, 140%, 160%, and 180% right?
DeleteI think there's a database for 100% and 180%, but not for 120/140/160% upstat.
Sorry to disappoint but I don't plan on doing a list like that. Every time Line randomly tweaks something, it has to be updated and I just don't have the time to maintain something that detailed and big. Good news though: Someone else does have a list of every 5 level step of stats. It's in Japanese but most have pics and the rest of the names (just the new rangers) you can pretty much figure out with translate.google.com. It's a very good list!
Deletehttp://farch.hotcom-cafe.com/wordpress/line_renja_data06.html
That link has complete database :D
DeleteHey panic, is there a strategies or tip as to how to upgrade red brown faster in order to get the thunder brown promotion?
ReplyDeleteSeems sacrificing 4 star characters ain't going to cut it...
There's no trick to it, unfortunately. You could keep farming more red brown or other 3/4 stars to eat or if you're in the higher stages just keep grinding stages for experience. The higher level red brown becomes the fewer % the food Rangers will become for him. Each level just requires more and more exp to fill up. You still have ten days. You'll get there!
DeleteHi I am new to line rangers and love it however I am struggling with the ranger level up system I am trying to lvl up red brown to 60 for an event but he is lvl 50 and that has taken a huge amount of sacrifices right now a 3star only gives him 5-10% this is getting lower and lower. Am I missing something thanks for any help
ReplyDeleteJust add random account or bot id (you can search it), and play continuosly to farm the *3 to be combined to your red brown.
DeleteThe higher level red brown becomes the fewer % the food Rangers will become for him. Each level just requires more and more exp to fill up. This is normal in the leveling process. It's just a grind to get to 60. But you have 10 days still to do it, so don't sweat it.
DeleteSave your rangers that you're going to synthesize for the bonus day (friday? i forgot). then you get double the exp you would get otherwise.
DeleteIf u have extra 4 stars or 5 stars that you can "sacrifice"... u will get to level 60 in no time.
ReplyDeleteThanks I will just keep at it then haha
ReplyDeleteHey Kirby,
ReplyDeleteToday is double XP day! So I'm wondering if you have any suggestions on levels that are good for grinding. When I'm grinding (level up me and my rangers on the same level continuously), I want a level which is short (Hurry Up definitely a no no), a level where I don't have to use bonus items, and if possible I want that level to be a boss level for the chance to get a 4 or 5 star ranger.
For example, when I was in the high 50s low 60s levels, I spent a lot of time playing level 104 because it was a really short level which required me to beat two convinis and a couple paper airplane dudes.
Any ideas?
I still grind 104 at level 80 because of how easy it is and it is a boss stage, but, for more exp some people like 112. It is possible to do it without items but it takes too long for my liking. 117 is my other favorite. 3100 exp on double exp day, short, very fast, no mineral upgrade in battle required.
Deleteif you send out a very fast movespeed ranger out the moment stage 104 starts, 2 tylers will appear and no convini. if you do this, you will only have to defeat 1 convini instead of 2. maybe this will help reduce your grind time.
DeletePerhaps also interesting to know for our friends.
ReplyDeleteEverytime my Line friend uses my help he will get 3 rangers from me.
But how are these 3 chosen? randomly? or perhaps the first three you have positioned in your team? If that is the case, i will make sure there are no lowbies in the first spots, but the best rangers.
Random if you have 5 members in your team. If you only want 3 Rangers available for your friend then only place 3 members in your team when you aren't playing.
DeleteWhy didn't I realize that?! From now on I'm only putting my three strongest rangers during idle time.
DeleteI have done some testing and concluded max mineral upgrades are a scam. Per upgrade you get +10 to the max of 3 different mineral upgrade levels. BUT, the total cost to reach the next mineral upgraded also increases by 10. The increase to max only helps for the starting amount since you start with full mineral, everything else means you have to wait longer between upgrades. So basically if your max mineral is already enough that you don't reach max waiting for ranger cooldown you are actually better off not upgrading. Then production upgrades aren't negated by increasing mineral upgrade cost.
ReplyDeleteActually I think I double counted the extra there. Which makes upgrading even less desirable. At level 67 max mineral the total cost to reach mineral level 8 was 2930 with a max of 1380 mineral. At level 68 The total upgrade cost was 2960 and the new max was 1400 (but only 10 extra as starting). At level 69 the total upgrade cost is 2990 and the new max is 1410. I'm not going to upgrade (or should I say downgrade) any further.
ReplyDelete